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Sometimes I think there is no more accursed nation than the Serbians, because I am tired of being one of the scapegoats for political blinkerism, angst and rage.

What follows down below is political, very passionately so. You may want to skip it if you are a person of a sensitive disposition, or one convinced that the US foreign policy and regard for international law is beyond reproach.

Also if you read this and feel your panties bunching up into a wad, I suggest some deep breathing prior to speech. I will respond to any disagreement voiced as a rational comment but if you're just after insulting or flaming me then I will lose serious respect for you.


In the year of our Lord 1980, I was born in the Republic of Yugoslavia on the geographical territory of Serbia although I've never felt Serbian. There are several reasons for this - partially genetic (after all I was technically 25% Serb and it seemed pointless to base my identity on a mere quarter of my genes).

The majority of my ancestry is a wild and heady mix of European and Eurasian nations, and when they were not getting dispossessed and fleeing their countries of birth as refugees then they were travelling to distant lands and marrying foreigners and bringing more half breed progeny into the world to pollute ethnic pools etc. Mostly, I thank them for it. Mostly I am glad to be dissended from people who were not afraid to travel, to seek new experiences, to discover what lay beyond. Mostly, I am grateful to them for giving me such a rich heritage, so many places that I may call home.

But sometimes, on the days when I am tired of small mindedness, and bullying, and scapegoating and persecution, yes on those days I am irate at my Croatian Jewish grandmother for marrying a Serb and giving me the miserable legacy of a boring nose and a lifelong membership of The Scapegoat Club (I mean think about it- Serbian AND Jewish? Why did nobody think of the children?)

I don't feel Serb just like I don't feel Russian, or Jewish. I still think of myself as Yugoslav. If I have any other ethnic feeling of identity it is with Georgia. I've never thought of myself as Serb.
It seems an alien construct to me, as ludicrous as thinking of myself as English.

I was born in Yugoslavia.
That was my land and I loved it even though I didn't realise that love was there until the land fell apart. I liked being Yugoslav because it was not a nationalist label. It meant simply - the land of Souther Slavs. And I liked that, very much.

To me it was never about nationalist or ethnic markers but Geography. I was a Southern Slav, because that’s where I lived. And the other people who lived in the territory of that land - the Croats, the Bosnians, the Macedonians, the Montenegrans, the Serbs, the Slovenians - they were all my people. We were all Southern Slavs by location. It did not matter that we were different from each other - our diversity was our strength! We had such a golden richness in our differences, in our cultures, in our dialects of the same language.

And that land, it was my land. And the people in it were my brothers and sisters, and our ethnicities - they were not important, and to prove it the people travelled the width and breadth of that land, and they intermarried and befriended each other often because the idea that we all belonged together was much stronger and more significant than blood.

At least, that’s what I like to think.

And it was good that life. Perhaps the idea that held it together was naive, but I believed in what it stood for, and if it was a dream then it was a good dream.

It hurt, of course, when the dream died. When suddenly the differences between us (who was born where to who, what your name was, what your blood was, whether you were 'ours' or 'theirs') became important, as important as living or dying, when before these things had seemed as arbitrary as the colour of your eyes or your hair. It was a terrifying world of that rage and separation. It seemed so senseless. It was senseless.

I can accept that maybe the land had to split, but I still don't understand why there was a war. How we allowed ourselves to have a war. How a war could have happened and how people could bear to do to each other what they did.

I don't understand why Serbs shelled Sarajevo for years. How could they have done that when they had likely danced and drunk and loved or visited someone in its streets? Self-defence is a different thing. When someone is coming at you with a knife, then you react and you keep yourself alive, I see that. But to shell civilians? To bomb civilians, how do you live with that? Truly, if you're a soldier, how do you live with your conscience at the end of the day, to realise that you've just dropped a bomb on innocents? I don't know how Serbs did it in Sarajevo, no more than I understand how Croats did it to Serbs in Krajina while they were fleeing, no more than I understand how Bosnians did it to Serbs in Bosnia, no more than I understand it how the British & Americans did it to Serbs in 1999 and so on and on and on and on and on throughout every war in the history of the world.

To defend and to protect, I understand, but to bomb schools? markets? a civilian passenger train on a bridge? That I don't understand. And it strikes at the core of me. That we can degenerate to such harshness, such brutality, such violence.

And mostly I think all of it, any of it, is inexcusable. I thank God I am not a soldier, I thank God I do not have to be in any army because these are never going to be choices I'm going to have to make. It's other people who have to make those choices, and live with their consequences, and allow me the luxury of never having to live that life.

All I know is: the Serbs, the Bosnians, the Croats, the Macedonians, the Slovenians - they were all my people. And through accident of birth Serbs might be my immediate family, but everyone else they were my family too. And then there was a war. And terrible things happened in that war. Brutal, terrible things. And they were done by everyone. On every side. And they are ALL inexcusable. They are ALL wrong.

I am angry about it all, but what continues to infuriate me is the scapegoating. This idea that problem solving is not about a collective recognition and ownership of the evil perpetuated, and collective understanding of how we can grow from that AND NEVER DO IT AGAIN, because IT WAS A BAD BAD BAD IDEA PEOPLE - but that instead problem solving is about finding whose fault it was. Who started it. And blaming them. And establishing military bases and semi dictatorial 'protectorates' everywhere.

But I don't believe that's right. I don't believe that's how healing works.

And I am still enraged, I am still so angry at that war and what happened in it. At what it did to me and to so many other people. I am enraged that my land is fractured, that my family is torn, and that I can't just go to Bosnia or Croatia, or Slovenia without some degree of caution. The joy and lightheartedness have been stolen from me, and from everyone.

There was a terrible, terrible bloodshed and so many people died and I don't believe that you move on, or that you learn a single fucking thing by making it all the Serbs fault.

Perhaps the Serbs did start. Or maybe it was the Croats. Or perhaps everybody started it. I just wish that was reported too, and not just *blame the Serbs*. And fine, if that's the way people want to play it then ok, blame the *bestiality of the Serbs* as long as you also point out the bestiality of the Croats in Krajina, and the Bosnians in Bosnia.

Nobody mentions the fact either that at the end of the war Serbia bore the brunt of refugees despite being already economically stretched to the limit with sanctions. Nobody mentions what still happens in Croatia. Nobody mentions what is happening in Kosovo now.

That's what strikes at the core of me. That there is never a balanced reporting. Only a continuing demonisation campaign and I am tired of hearing only the one side of the story.

Being a Serb nowadays is fine. In the 21st century we are not the hot young maligned things in the West anymore. There's the Arabs/Muslims/Middle Eastern folk upstaging us now, though I still get my share of hostility and *so you're the bad guys* commentary. And I'm tired of being seen as evil not because of my individual actions, but of how the media has painted all my countrymen.

But being a Serb in the 1990s- that was pure hell. Especially being a Serb in the West (although being a Serb in Croatia was considerably worse). You might as well have said : "Please abuse me, because obviously I am evil and therefore less than human and therefore I deserve anything you would care to dish out at me. Therefore it is all right to spit on me, and degrade me and call me names. It is all right to refuse me visas, and detain me at every border and question me for hours about completely irrelevant pointless things. It is perfectly fine to think I am less worthy. By all means you should point at me, and bully me, and tell me how wrong and bad and evil I am. Because obviously I am evil, because BBC says so - so therefore come on up and stare at me since clearly you will want to know exactly what evil looks like, but please don't sit next to me at the table because you don't want to get too close, you don't actually want to ever treat me like a human or like a friend.

And certainly, never ever EVER show me mercy or pity or kindness. Because if you do that, then it wouldn't be all right to persecute me and bully me. It won't be all right to shove me and throw dirt at me. It won't be all right to have a separate line - just for Serbs- at airports. And it certainly won't be all right to slap down crippling economic sanctions on my country. To prevent Serb sportsmen from competing at sporting events - because obviously they are evil too! They must be being Serb, and it would never do to be seen treating them with dignity or letting them mix with us. Because they are all evildoers, and all must be ruthlessly punished.

Therefore it's also all right to completely disregard the international laws and invade and bomb the fuck out of civilians in a foreign country. And it would never do to feel pity, never never never because then they wouldn't be just "Collateral Damage". Because then if they weren't evil they might deserve some leeway, or some damages, or some reparations.

I hope nobody reading this has to live through what I lived through in that decade, or in 1999. I hope none of you have lived that.

But I did live that. I lived all of it, and I remember. I remember everything. And the thing that gets me the deepest, the most, is HOW BLOODY FUCKING UNFAIR the whole fucking thing was. Continues to be.

How unfair it is that everything is always the Serbs fault and only the Serbs fault. How Serbian war criminals are paraded through the Hague, and how the US kicks up a great big fuss about the ones which are not handed over, and how continuously all people hear about is how those awful Serbs slaughtered those Bosnians, and Albanians and drowned all their little kittens when we don't hear on an equal scale about what was done to the Serbs.

And it eats at me that the other side never get the same treatment.
That US (and on a lesser scale UK) will never answer for war crimes. That an equivalent fuss is not made in dragging Bosnian and Croat war criminals to justice. That people don't talk about how at the time that Balkans was falling apart the West (with Germany at the forefront and USA in the shadows) was really busy fanning those flames.

That it's unfair that nobody ever has to say *sorry* to the Serbs. That a big fuss ISN'T made over how the Croats ethnically cleansed half a million Serbs from Krajina in the last Balkan War (yes indeed, that number is 500,000 but do you recollect reading about it in the papers?) or about the great big concentration camps they had in the Big War before that (the death toll there btw, was at least 200,000).

Similarly, that a big fuss isn't being made about Albanian Terrorism (and the continuing and current slaughter of Serbians and Macedonians), but that it's all right to have Guantanamo Bay.

And I rage about how my pain is invalid because I was on the wrong side. How it was all right to abuse me and my country because we were the bad guys. Because things were portrayed as ONLY our fault.

I don't think Serbs are without blame. I think Serbs did terrible, terrible, terrible things that I never want to justify because I don’t think they can be. I think it’s a wonderful thing that Milosevic is in the Hague and out of our hair.

But I don't think it's all right that no one talks of things done to the Serbs. I don't think it's all right that nobody cares. And I don't think it's all right that mostly when it comes to Western opinion on the Balkans nobody knows what they are talking about.

Because they've never lived there, or never visited, or never bothered to find out. They haven't done their research. They only read the papers. And the sadness that that's all it took to make up people's minds.
And I don't think you should be allowed to bomb a country until your citizens can find it on the map.

I wish everyone would admit they fucked up. I wish everyone would rage and cry and be able to take genuine responsibility and make a genuine apology. I wish we could all move on. I wish we could start to heal and to repair. I wish I didn't have to be just one of the scapegoats anymore. That I no longer have to be part of a mirror for a collective shadow.

That's what I want for Christmas.*



*but will settle for some books

Comments

( 35 comments — Leave a comment )
offensive_mango
Dec. 9th, 2005 02:58 pm (UTC)
That all sounds perfectly reasonable to me.

It's nowhere on the same scale, but this sounds awfully familiar to how I felt as an American when I first came to the UK:

"And I'm tired of being seen as evil not because of my individual actions, but of how the media has painted all my countrymen."

Having said that, I don't particularly like Americans either ;)
rainsinger
Dec. 9th, 2005 03:14 pm (UTC)
It's nowhere on the same scale, but this sounds awfully familiar to how I felt as an American when I first came to the UK:


Yes indeed, you're also high up on the bad guy list, and it is horrible when people don't bother to find out who you are and what you think but just go immediately into OhmyGod all Americans are EEEEEVIL mode.

Having said that, I don't particularly like Americans either ;)

Heh. And Serbs can drive me mental with some of their traits.
webofevil
Dec. 9th, 2005 03:04 pm (UTC)
> an equivalent fuss is not made in dragging Bosnian and Croat war criminals to justice

On Wednesday the Lords were debating Croatia and its accession to the EU. Several speakers mentioned that one of the main obstacles to this was the large number of named war criminals from those years still on the loose, specifically Ante Gotovina. Bizarrely, the very next day Gotovina was suddenly arrested in the Canary Islands. I know the Serbs have so far been the most visible "Most Wanted", but I think as the EU question gets bigger you'll see more Croatians going to the wall too. And even, in time, Bosnians.


Have you seen No Man's Land?
webofevil
Dec. 9th, 2005 03:22 pm (UTC)
> Have you seen No Man's Land?

If you haven't, and you looked at that imdb page, please for God's sake ignore the comment comparing it to Benigni's satanic car-crash "Life Is Beautiful". It's so bloody different the two films are in different dimensions.
rainsinger
Dec. 9th, 2005 03:36 pm (UTC)
I know the Serbs have so far been the most visible "Most Wanted", but I think as the EU question gets bigger you'll see more Croatians going to the wall too. And even, in time, Bosnians.


:) That sounds like a good step. Perhaps I might even start being able to read the papers without undergoing a dramatic increase of blood pressure.

Have you seen No Man's Land?

Yes I have, and think it's a brilliant film.

Have you seen Fuse? It's a black comedy to do with post-war stuff in Bosnia, but well worth seeing if only for the children's choir singing "House of the Rising Sun" to welcome Bill Clinton.
webofevil
Dec. 9th, 2005 03:39 pm (UTC)
> Have you seen Fuse?

Ooh, no. I'll seek it out.
actually_not
Dec. 9th, 2005 03:26 pm (UTC)
I have huge respect for you, for who you are and how you have dealt with what life has thrown at you. I think you're amazing. My knowledge of your history is (unfortunately) limited to what our media has shown us but I have no doubt that (as with so many other conflicts) there is much much more to the story and that you are right to be angered.
rainsinger
Dec. 12th, 2005 06:21 pm (UTC)
thank you
*sends you some sparkly vibes*

well the more people that go away thinking that there is more to something than its picture in the media the closer I get to delusions of grandeur happiness. :)

[an unrelated question - where is your icon from and what is it saying?]
tubewalker
Dec. 9th, 2005 04:11 pm (UTC)
Rainsinger... you fuck1ng rule.
rainsinger
Dec. 12th, 2005 06:22 pm (UTC)
Thank you Sir, so do you.
mindslant
Dec. 9th, 2005 05:42 pm (UTC)
Brilliant
I must admit I'm not up on recent events (things get hazier around 1960 for me trying to piece everything together), I've got alot of history to catch up on.
My favorite part was this:
"I liked being Yugoslav because it was not a nationalist label. It meant simply - the land of Souther Slavs.?"

It shows a from of optimism and hope, a real world peace humanitarian feel. I agree also, the problem lies in the lack of a solution, a great distraction on moving forward.
rainsinger
Dec. 12th, 2005 06:24 pm (UTC)
Re: Brilliant
I think it's hard to be up on events of all the foreign countries - after all there's so much history and it's so convoluted!

I agree also, the problem lies in the lack of a solution, a great distraction on moving forward.

indeed. :)
obviously the solution would be to make me Queen Of Everything but failing that I will settle for increase in tolerance and questioning.
mzdt
Dec. 10th, 2005 12:49 am (UTC)
being proud of the culture & achievements of those who have gone before is an entirely different thing to be held responsible for the actions of a few - and yet that is what world politics and stereotypes are all about.

I am happy to be identified at British, and yet disown the actions of the war criminal Blair. It's the same, only I'm not being held responsible for his actions - yet.

The people who make me really angry are the people who cannot make that distinction. Those who pounced on my post about the olive farmers on the west bank repeating generalisations about suicide bombers and the like. Such blanket statements are nothing more than racism.

I'm lucky enough not to have experienced what you have; the 'majority' seek to ensure that injustices will continue. x.
rainsinger
Dec. 12th, 2005 06:27 pm (UTC)
The people who make me really angry are the people who cannot make that distinction.

Me too.
And it's especially problematic when a lot of other people get angry about it, especially people with access to firearms and significantly shorter tempers than my own.

And I can understand how that anger and frustration builds up until it explodes.

Such blanket statements are nothing more than racism.

Indeed. And yet often I think when colour of skin is not the obvious issue but ethnicity then it can be harder to spot and to combat and to call people on it because it seems more reasonable...

I know these changes are a lifetime of work, but I'm so tired of it all sometimes.
twistedserious
Dec. 10th, 2005 07:20 am (UTC)
I must admit that this is all a bit hard for me to wrap my head around. I guess part of that is because I'm swedish. We've always had a high level of immigrants, and lacking almost comepletely a culture of our own, have always been eager to take in other cultures into our society. There are many Yugoslavians living here, and I never quite got the grasp on the differences between them as people. To me, it's just sub-lables telling which part of Yugoslavia each person came from, but I've always still viewed them as yugoslavs. I think the fact that we took in all kinds added to the whole confusion over any people being at fault. They all came to us, so they must all have been the vicitims, sort of.
Another part of it is probably that I don't read the news. The news in Sweden are mostly crap, so I don't bother. If I want over-dramatized gossipy stuff, I'll turn on a soap. I probably also turned a deaf ear when the time came to asign blame, since I don't believe in that stuff. To me, it's more important to focus on how to fix a problem. Who caused it isn't all that important.

Nobody mentions what still happens in Croatia. Nobody mentions what is happening in Kosovo now.

What is happening there now?
rainsinger
Dec. 12th, 2005 06:36 pm (UTC)
We've always had a high level of immigrants, and lacking almost comepletely a culture of our own, have always been eager to take in other cultures into our society.

Aside from the cold and the expense of everything Sweden to me has always sounded like a dream country. [Have you read the book K-Pax? There's a mention there of Sweden being a highly evolved society]

They all came to us, so they must all have been the vicitims, sort of.


Yes, I think they were. Those that did not experience violence directly were simply another kind of victim.

I probably also turned a deaf ear when the time came to asign blame, since I don't believe in that stuff. To me, it's more important to focus on how to fix a problem.

That's because you are a woman of both great beauty and intellect and I *heart* and admire you

What is happening there now?

Kosovo has been a bloodbath since 1999, except now it's the Albanians prosecuting the Serbs who are left and KFOR forces are too stretched out to really be able to protect people. I think at the moment Serbs are just banding together for safety, a lot of them (and of Roma) are fleeing north into Serbia as refugees and others are arming themselves to the teeth and walling themselves in. It's very dangerous and Serbs cannot travel freely because they will be abducted/harassed/killed.

Since 1999 there have been about 5000 Serbs who have been reported to have just disappeared.

Also there is an ever increasing drugs/white slavery trade being run by the Albanians which is next to impossible to bring down.
twistedserious
Dec. 22nd, 2005 07:47 am (UTC)
Aside from the cold and the expense of everything Sweden to me has always sounded like a dream country. [Have you read the book K-Pax? There's a mention there of Sweden being a highly evolved society]

It's not that cold, not in the southern parts anyway. ^__^ And I don't get why everybody keep insisting that living in Sweden is so expensive. Maybe I'm just used to the costs, since I've lived here my whole life, but things just don't seem very expensive to me.
[I'm afraid not, though I did see the movie which made no mention of Sweden at all. ^__^]

That's because you are a woman of both great beauty and intellect and I *heart* and admire you

*swoons* Shame about that boyfriend, really. *le sigh* You'd be all mine if it weren't for him, oh yes.... ^__~ Granted, I have the same love for shiny sheets as him, but I do pick prettier colors. ^__^ And while I may not look strikingly handsome in the right pants like he does, I have mastered the secret art of getting-your-foot-out-of-your-mouth-fu through many years of exstensive training, and am now lightening fast and deadly. Ah, if only you weren't a woman of both great beauty and intellect, you'd chose me instead of him, I'm sure of it. ;o)

Kosovo has been a bloodbath since 1999, except now it's the Albanians prosecuting the Serbs who are left and KFOR forces are too stretched out to really be able to protect people. I think at the moment Serbs are just banding together for safety, a lot of them (and of Roma) are fleeing north into Serbia as refugees and others are arming themselves to the teeth and walling themselves in. It's very dangerous and Serbs cannot travel freely because they will be abducted/harassed/killed.

Since 1999 there have been about 5000 Serbs who have been reported to have just disappeared.

Also there is an ever increasing drugs/white slavery trade being run by the Albanians which is next to impossible to bring down.


You should really write more about that in your journal... You know, sorta like Feath does. There so much that's just not considered news-worty enough to get much attention....
squaddie67
Dec. 10th, 2005 02:44 pm (UTC)
I was due to go out to Ploce back when the whole Western response was to send in the UN. I was to be one of those wearing the sky blue Beret. Not one of the troops on the ground could understand what the hell was going on and how it could have got that far. A lot of people said it all went tits up when Tito died, I guess I'll never know. An intelligence Officer told us that the various peoples living in the region were of a very passionate nature, and if you were a friend then you were a friend for life, but if you crossed them, then watch out. In the end we never went, and the operation was eventually taken over by NATO, but everyone I spoke to who went said they could not get their head around how much hatred there was between folk who had previously been neighbours. Civil wars are truly the worst variety of conflict there is, and you have nothing but my deepest respect for coming through all that and still managing to be a smashing person. tubewalker is right, you rule.
rainsinger
Dec. 12th, 2005 06:38 pm (UTC)
thank you
but everyone I spoke to who went said they could not get their head around how much hatred there was between folk who had previously been neighbours.

I know. It's crazy. I still can't get my head around that. Although thankfully some friendships did survive the war.

And Fuse (by Pjer Zalica) is a brilliant and funny film which if you ever come across I think you would enjoy.
(Deleted comment)
rainsinger
Dec. 12th, 2005 06:40 pm (UTC)
Re: civil war
Hee so true - is what family said re Afghanistan.

Indeed. :)

In Serbia there were a lot of funny songs about that [not specifically Afghanistan]
rainsinger
Dec. 12th, 2005 06:40 pm (UTC)
Re: civil war
also: love the icon. you are indeed a wizard.
nanji
Dec. 12th, 2005 12:37 am (UTC)
42
Very good rant, extremely enjoyable.

Of course, you're right, it is completely unfair. And it is propaganda and political machination. The man on the street suffers, he does not have a say. He is a pawn. The media is no good, stories twist and pictures lie, so what are we left with?
A world with too many problems for one individual to solve. I would do what you do: have a rant, have a drink and then reread 'the Art of War' and marvel at how closely political leaders follow its dictates. (It is also the book that shows how their maneuvring can be countered, but anyway.) :-)

May you live long and prosper young Earthling. \\//
rainsinger
Dec. 12th, 2005 06:41 pm (UTC)
Re: 42
I love you :)

and marvel at how closely political leaders follow its dictates. (It is also the book that shows how their maneuvring can be countered, but anyway.) :-)


Interesting. :) I'll have to check out Sun Tzu.

May you live long and prosper young Earthling.

And you. :) And may we see each other soon.
kc724
Dec. 12th, 2005 02:48 pm (UTC)
I think on the outside it's so easy to know what needs to be done to make everything right but the reality of it is that it's not. I think it's the same reason why a 'perfect' system like communism never works.

I wish everyone would admit they fucked up. I wish everyone would rage and cry and be able to take genuine responsibility and make a genuine apology. I wish we could all move on. I wish we could start to heal and to repair. I wish I didn't have to be just one of the scapegoats anymore. That I no longer have to be part of a mirror for a collective shadow.

The problem is people don't want to admit they're fucked up. No one wants to take responsibilties for their action. All people in this world are selfish, in some degree, myself included. However that's not to say that the human race is doomed to an exisitance of hatred. On the contrary; while I do think the average Joe or Jane does want what's best him or herself, they dont necessarily want to hurt or screw other people doing it. Hate is not natural. The desire to hurt others is not natural. It's all a reaction based on the situation. Even when I found myself in Iraq, getting shot at for the first time, it still took a lot (probably from training) to put the baddie in the crosshair and pull the trigger.

I wish I had answers but what am I but a grain of sand on the beach. I try to do my best for myself and the world and maybe one day things will change. But the reality of it is that unless something spectacular happens, like a world war III or something, things aren't going to change.

Books are always nice. If you want to leave a snail mail I can dump a few on you that are going to get donated to the library. Well if you're interested in fantasy books anyway.
rainsinger
Dec. 12th, 2005 06:45 pm (UTC)
The problem is people don't want to admit they're fucked up. No one wants to take responsibilties for their action.

I know. It's hard. People are defensive. Often this kind of work taks a lifetime. Nobody likes to admit they are/have done wrong, least of all me. (But I still harbour a hope, somewhere inside. I think because if I didn't, it would be simply TOO SAD).

Even when I found myself in Iraq, getting shot at for the first time, it still took a lot (probably from training) to put the baddie in the crosshair and pull the trigger.


*shudder*
I don't envy you those experiences the least little bit.
rainsinger
Dec. 12th, 2005 06:45 pm (UTC)
I wanted to add to that last: Congratulations on survival.
prophetessamy
Dec. 12th, 2005 06:15 pm (UTC)
Hiya,
I read this and was not surprised at the subject matter and your vehemence after looking at your chart in detail this weekend.
However, my comment is unrelated - I just wanted to ask you where you and Z met so I can compose a composite chart. ha. compose a composite. Nice.
rainsinger
Dec. 12th, 2005 06:50 pm (UTC)
I read this and was not surprised at the subject matter and your vehemence after looking at your chart in detail this weekend.


I love astrology talk. :D
Was it all the Scorpio Moon and Pluto & Mars in Libra>?

I just wanted to ask you where you and Z met so I can compose a composite chart. ha. compose a composite. Nice.

Oooooh! Excitement and glee!
Z and I met in London at a party full of other little immigrant exiles. :)

prophetessamy
Dec. 12th, 2005 07:07 pm (UTC)
Was it all the Scorpio Moon and Pluto & Mars in Libra?
Actually it was a few things but primariliy the aquarius s. node and cancer sun in the 11th. I don't normally assume the political angle with the 11th but the south node kicked it over.

Great! thanks for the info!!
rainsinger
Dec. 12th, 2005 08:21 pm (UTC)
ooooo, how interesting!
I'm struggling to get my head around the nodes - have been working on a post of musings for [Bad username: evolutionaryastrology]
prophetessamy
Dec. 12th, 2005 09:09 pm (UTC)
around nodes in general or around your nodes?

i LOVE the nodes. I would consider myself (as much as a Virgo can claim this honestly to herself) approaching an expert on the nodes.
rainsinger
Dec. 13th, 2005 10:03 am (UTC)
Nodes in general although I was looking at my nodes in particular as they seemed a good starting point of learning.

I'd never really come across much on the nodes before I began reading Steven's work, and actually looking at a lot of the things you and adizzi said about it that I kept seeing the validity of the nodes in interpretations.

I'm seeing the beginnings of how to put it together but I am really struggling so I shall be soliciting insights I'm sure :)
prophetessamy
Dec. 13th, 2005 04:03 pm (UTC)
Woohoo!
(Anonymous)
Dec. 15th, 2005 10:49 am (UTC)
Hey there,
I totally understand your frustrations. I ,like the other reader am an American citizen. When I visited Europe a few years back, many people I met started to dig into me about American policy and other problems they were having with my homeland. I really think that these people just don't have lives. Or if they do they have miserable ones( Which has nothing to do with the US or Yugoslavia).Of course the US has had dark days, name a country which has not. Unlike the other reader I love Americans. What we may lack in math, science, and geographical proficiency we more than make up for in imagination and heart. With that in mind. I would really like to see you write a totally positive essay on Serbs. Who are famous Serbs or their descendants? WHat is great about Serbia? What are the greatest things Serbia has contributed to the world? Let's focus on the positive. I know there is a lot good stuff to come out of Serbia and I'd like to learn more about it.
Don't let the bastards get you down Nina.
rainsinger
Dec. 16th, 2005 05:35 pm (UTC)
thanks for the response
Thank you for your comment, and curse LJ for not sending it to my inbox in a timely manner.

You deserve a much more thorough and structured answer than this, but off the top of my head some good things to have come out of Serbia:

-Nikola Tesla - who invented electricity and is our probably most benign and useful export.

-A terrific basketball team - we were world champions some years back until we embarassed ourselves horribly at the Olympics.

-Some excellent cinematography - Kusturica is the most famous, and although he has gone a bit insane Time of the Gypsies is still a quality film. So are a ton of others.

- Serbia hosts the craziest, biggest brass festival/competition in Balkans every summer; alongside its other contribution is an appreciation of brass bands.

- The sweets of my childhood- chocolate banas, crunchy on the outside squishy on the inside.

- The ability to face and survive even the darkest times with warmth and humour.

- Some really pretty scenery, and wonderful nature:
some old photos from me here and from mzdt here, here and here.

Also a lot of *so bad it's brilliant* music but not everyone shares my appreciation of that.
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